Sweep Picking

[mirth]

So I've been more curious about the possibilities of sweep picking lately. Some of you may have seen my other thread about that crazy hard part. Looking at that and working on it to get it clean I realize how inept I am at such a thing as "sweep" picking.

When I open my mind past the ridiculousness that was the 80s/90s shred scene I see a technique that really allows you to do somethings very non-guitarish. Almost piano like. It seems to me too that if you were able to think ahead a bit you'd be able to map all kinds of interesting lines out over the fretboard.

So that begs the question has anyone here had much luck with this skill? I can fake it pretty well (enough to get those looks) but I've always known it's a parlor trick. Then I look on youtube and most of the guys are no better than I am at it.

Aside from Gambale and a few others (George Bellas; Yngwie (and that crowd); Derryl Gabel; etc...) Who is doing some cool stuff with this technique and are there any good videos/books that really nail a good way to hone this thing in?

Are there any jazz guys doing it really clean and interesting (I know Jimmy Bruno dabbles; though it's pretty loose)

I guess as an adendum; I've seen plenty of people rush it and still "pull it off" but I'm really looking to see who's doing it tight (where you can't even tell it's sweeping) or maybe even on a clean guitar?

Thanks!

[brucestevens]

Sweep picking is one of those things that I conceptually understand, but have never quite been able to do.

[mirth]

Same here. I guess I'm curious if it's a viable technique or not? Is it worth investing time in? Part of me thinks not (the part that's been practicing for 20 years) but part of me thinks that's shortsighted. I just wonder if anyone is really pushing it to it's limits yet? (not from a speed limit either; more creative limit)

[chrissh]

For me, incorporating it was the only way I could achieve certain circular forms. And I disliked the sound of \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ swept arps of late '80s neoclassical and consciously avoided it for years. I kind of just started doing it in the '90s while playing with ideas for weird articulation, much more bricolage than science, and then saw a Shawn Lane article that clarified what I was sort of doing. Bofatron refined his highly systematic version of something unique. That's who I'd recommend you look to for instruction. I think what I do is actually more like 'economy picking' since it's usually across two or three strings, but the principles are the same. After a small physical learning curve, it's amazingly easy too.

[chrissh]

I think by "doing it tight" you're back in the realm of conventional sweep picking, you just might prefer different notes. But you're likely to sound like \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ if your concern is being a super clean *guitar player*. That could be a failure of my imagination. I say reject other guitar players as models for sweeping, since you've covered all those bases, and figure out how to apply it to music you imagine or at least under-explored non-guitar music. Either use it to perform "impossible" music (like Nancarrow's post-performer music, for instance) or make your own 'post-performer' music. But again, if the technique is really, really super clean and symmetrical it kind of defeats the purpose of using a guitar, IMHO.

[Infinite Ego]

Bofatron refined his highly systematic version of something unique. That's who I'd recommend you look to for instruction.

;D

If you can track him down

[mirth]

Clean was probably not the correct wording, I think I was more referring to "time" than sloppiness. Most sweepers I've hears don't seem to sit in the pocket much, more licky kind of thing.

I certainly use some form of it for some stuff, but I've never really mastered the longrange view for it. Like being able to use it for unplanned shapes, or play it slower RGB uber speed cleanly. Seems like a lot of people only have one speed with the technique, Mayne I'm wrong though.

I definitely read those bofatron papers back in the day, got me thinking about how to write exercises for myself to accomplish nontraditional playing.

I also reference clean playing meaning, non distorted. Ant jazz guys sweeping it up on a hollowbody or something?

Thanks all

[chrissh]

I understand Bofatron has a thriving gelato business in the Azores. Maybe try Google.pt?

[aliensporebomb]

Can we hear an mp3 of what you're trying to do? Maybe there's a different way to execute it that is not sweeping?

[dasein]

Are you thinking of sweeping as something different from economy picking? It's a blurry line between the two...

Tim Miller does a lot of sweeps with hammer-ons, usually with with specific string groupings and left hand fingerings so that they sound less like a sweep pattern and more pianistic.

Bireli Lagrene is another guy on electric guitar who uses some combination of sweep/economy picking to play insanely fast stuff. Some of it is straight from the Django school of picking, but some of it isn't.

[mirth]

Don't really know what I'm thinking actually. Mostly curious if I'm missing anyone doing something special as I work this thing out.

I was talking more sweeping than economy, but depending on who you ask they could mean the same thing. But more 1 note per string kind of stuff. Seems like there's a lot of really cool kind of things you could do, maybe even classical guitarish, or especially some piano like things.

Tim Miller and Bireli are both fantastic, and come to think of it, have definitely heard some good sweep like lines from them. THanks.


I've been thinking of ways to practice and expand the whole thing (in my head at least) so was just curious what everyone was doing with it.

[dasein]

Well, Tim Miller's sweep lines usually aren't one-note-per-string.

They alternate between 2 notes and 1 notes per string. For strings with 2 notes, he plays the notes with his first finger and either his third or fourth (with a hammer one or pull-off between them). For strings with one notes, he plays the notes with his middle finger.

You still sweep it, but alternating between two and one notes per string makes a little less predictable.

[mirth]

Do you have any Tim Miller lines somewhere? I'd love to see some more of his stuff. I have a couple CDs etc...and the Goodrick/Miller book, but never transcribed his stuff. Where did you find out about this stuff?

He's a fascinating and fantastic player.

[brandonshred]

Saw Rosenwinkel live in Chicago last year, and he did some mind-blowing intervallic sweeps that I've never heard him do on record. Really wish someone would have recorded it so I could have figured it out...

[aliensporebomb]

The best sweeper I ever saw in person was some guy who was in a christian band around here. I forget the name of the band. He played a blue Carvin solidbody shred machine theu some kind of Marshall half stack. The best all around player I saw in this town then was that Greg Herzenagh guy who was in Outsiders/Life After Dark/Speed Kings. But I have no idea who this sweeping prodigy was.

He had this schtick he would do where he would ascend legato across the neck from 6th string to 2nd or 1st and then when he'd hit the first or second string he'd sweep up from there so he'd get these bizarre multi octave swept lines where you thought he would stop but he kept going up and up even if he had only six strings. This was around the time of the 7 string grunge guys so he was already behind the cusp of popularity (christian shred? I didn't get that at all).

I could see HOW he was doing it but my hands just couldn't translate what he was doing - I understood the legato part but the swept part was about half again as fast as the legato part and maybe he did it on purpose to obscure how he was doing it. Maybe I'll try to figure it out slow so I can explain it.

The problem was he noodled constantly before, during and after every song they played and it was utterly unbearable after a while. Seriously, every silence, every ballad, every song. SHUT UP! Unbelievable. it was like he COULDN'T STOP. He didn't play rhythm the whole night, the poor rhythm guitarist didn't get one solo either.

They were followed up by some metal act (it was some weird battle of the bands type thing) where they played a song called "laughing in the face of death" which I thought was hilarious in the wake of a christian type band. Oh well.